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this is need to know real talk about the\h
reality of unidentified aerial phenomenon\h\h

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from australia ross coltart\h
from the u.s bryce zabel

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well it's the beginning of a new year and there is\h
so much going on with the subject of unidentified\h\h

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aerial phenomena that you need to know about that\h
we've had to create a podcast just to do that\h\h

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today we're going to be talking about what it\h
means now that harry reid has left the stage\h\h

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and how the media covered that news also about\h
how uap is a global issue with global evidence\h\h

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and how taking a wait-and-see approach may not\h
be a good idea i'm bryce sable i'm coming to you\h\h

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from outside los angeles california here in the\h
united states and my partner on this brand new\h\h

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endeavor is ross coldheart across the world\h
in australia just outside of sydney and ross\h\h

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my man i just can't wait to hear what you've been\h
working on g'day bryce and uh yeah happy new year\h\h

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to you and to all of our listeners and viewers um\h
look i would be remiss i think both of us want to\h\h

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really fulsomely acknowledge the contribution\h
that senator harry reid made to the whole issue\h\h

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of the study of uaps it was harry reid who i think\h
was 2007 when he was the senate majority leader\h\h

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initiated what was initially known as the advanced\h
aerospace threat identification program atip\h\h

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later known more correctly as orsap the advanced\h
something or other weapons oh anyway i won't go\h\h

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there it's too long all of these acronyms is too\h
much but basically it was harry who initiated what\h\h

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was essentially a pentagon study of ufos and and\h
frankly his achievement his contribution in that\h\h

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regard is inestimable i think the the consequences\h
of harry's contributions will only really be\h\h

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known in years to come and his passing is a great\h
sadness and more importantly the efforts that he\h\h

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made to shed light on this intriguing mystery are\h
only now beginning to emerge you know it's also\h\h

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very interesting to me that harry reid has become\h
sort of that that hero of the uap movement because\h\h

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he never seemed to quite catch on as an exciting\h
persona in the political stage i mean he\h\h

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he kind of even though people have played up you\h
know the controversies that he may have stepped\h\h

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into the truth is he seemed like a pretty uh\h
stayed persona if you will on the political stage\h\h

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and so for him to suddenly come to the forefront\h
as being this person who helped get funding for\h\h

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uap research is really extraordinary and the\h
fact that he not only did that but then spent\h\h

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the better part of his retirement from the\h
senate thinking about it talking about it\h\h

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and advocating for greater openness on the topic\h
really does uh strike a chord with me and with i\h\h

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think a lot of our listeners and that's the key\h
issue bryce because the fact that harry reid was\h\h

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senate majority leader means and a lot of people\h
missed this that he was a member of the so-called\h\h

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gang of eight and harry was briefed as a result of\h
that membership into the deepest darkest secrets\h\h

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in the u.s government and military he was briefed\h
into all the special access programs that a lot of\h\h

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government congressmen are not allowed to\h
know about the oversight committees don't\h\h

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even get briefed about he was aware of the waived\h
unacknowledged special access programs and more\h\h

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importantly his um what do you call it over there\h
his electorate uh the area that he represented his\h\h

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home state of nevada that's where area 51\h
is located and that's the somewhat mythical\h\h

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united states air force facility where a lot\h
of the testing of high technology happens\h\h

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and of course it's the rumored location by you\h
know ufo people and conspiracy theorists about\h\h

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the place where the government supposedly got\h
flying sources stashed away in a cave somewhere\h\h

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so if anybody knows what was really going\h
on it was harry reid and assuming he was\h\h

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constrained by national security imperatives\h
and not able to talk about what he knew\h\h

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i think it's very very important to acknowledge\h
that it was harry in 2009 who wrote a letter\h\h

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arguing that the pentagon ufo program had made\h
so much progress with the investigation of\h\h

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highly sensitive unconventional aerospace related\h
findings that i think he said will likely lead\h\h

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to technological improvements and advancements\h
and he recommended the creation of a special\h\h

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access program and of course he was declined\h
that access and the big question remains\h\h

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why was he declined that access why was this\h
pentagon ufo investigation program declined\h\h

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the special access program status that would have\h
given them the access to these top secret highly\h\h

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secret compartmentalized secret programs\h
that are going on inside the us government\h\h

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i think a lot more than he could lead on about he\h
he certainly did and by the way let's put a shout\h\h

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out to our good friend and fellow investigative\h
reporter george knapp who maintained a friendship\h\h

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all those years with harry reid and who actually\h
was very instrumental in in sort of harry's harry\h\h

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reid's blossoming of his his knowledge on this\h
topic um and and and managed to cultivate that\h\h

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friendship and that professional relationship over\h
the course of many years the only answer one could\h\h

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really have to your question though about well\h
why would he be denied access when he's such an\h\h

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important fellow in the united states government\h
is that somebody's got something they don't want\h\h

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to talk about and they don't want him talking\h
about it they don't want him knowing about it\h\h

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in which case you have to ask what in the world\h
is that which kind of leads me to my pet peeve of\h\h

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the week um and and i i i have to just put it out\h
there because uh even though it's not about harry\h\h

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reid per se his death has managed to put this\h
in the forefront uh in the immediate aftermath\h\h

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of harry reid's passing of course uh most news\h
organizations certainly in the mainstream media\h\h

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have been getting prepared for this for a while\h
so they had obituaries ready to go that they just\h\h

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had to buff up before they went to print or to to\h
air with them and i watched as many of them as i\h\h

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could i read as many as i could and i was blown\h
away at the complete lack of mention in obituary\h\h

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after obituary after obituary for his work in uap\h
his work to understand it his work to get funding\h\h

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for it and the fact that he spent a great deal\h
of his retirement thinking and talking about it\h\h

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it was missing in action uh there was everything\h
else there there was a lot of talk about him being\h\h

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a boxer when he was a young man there was a lot\h
about him growing up in poverty and where he grew\h\h

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up there was a lot about his political issues\h
and how he fought for various things and how he\h\h

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called mitt romney names during the campaign but\h
there was just nothing about uap uh and it and it\h\h

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really bothered me because it's not about dissing\h
harry reid and something that was important to him\h\h

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but if as a journalist i have to say if\h
something that's is really important to the\h\h

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person who passes away and you don't mention it\h
i think you missed the story what do you think i\h\h

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completely agree and in fact it was the same here\h
in australia and i follow a lot of the british and\h\h

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overseas newspapers there was very little coverage\h
i think the daily mail mentioned it in the uk\h\h

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but um frankly a lot of the media coverage when\h
it talked about harry reid's involvement with\h\h

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the uaep issue tended to ridicule or mock it\h
i'll be honest bryce i think as a member of the\h\h

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mainstream media as somebody who's worked\h
in mainstream media now for 35 plus years\h\h

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i think nothing underlines more the growing\h
irrelevance of mainstream media than the fact\h\h

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that it is completely failing to cover this issue\h
properly uaps are and will soon become one of\h\h

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the biggest stories of the 21st century i mean\h
absolutely no doubt about that and i think it's\h\h

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very very telling although i don't necessarily\h
agree with some of the things he says i think it's\h\h

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very very telling that joe rogan's podcast which\h
has featured an enormous number of uap issues\h\h

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including very good interviews\h
with people like elon musk and\h\h

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bob lazar and you know people who are some of\h
the key figures including george knapp and jeremy\h\h

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corbell i think it's very telling that joe rogan's\h
podcast which is not if you like mainstream\h\h

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media it's definitely getting 11 million views 11\h
million views which is i think it's 11 or multiple\h\h

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times the best reports on cnn and i think it's\h
very telling the media needs to wake up to itself\h\h

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it's not realizing the significance the enormous\h
import of what's happening here it's still locked\h\h

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in a paradigm of oh my god ufos well default\h
by default we must treat this with ridicule or\h\h

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stigma or taboo when in fact we know i mean harry\h
reid's involvement alone is enough to acknowledge\h\h

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that this is a real issue and it's funny i mean we\h
still get the same thing here in australia i get\h\h

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called onto tv shows or radio shows in australia\h
and there's always that pathetic playing of the\h\h

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x-files music behind the uh behind the story or\h
a mythical sort of flying saucer put on the green\h\h

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screen behind me and it immediately diminishes\h
the seriousness of the subject matter and i\h\h

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don't know why it bewilders me i well i i think we\h
could probably throw some theories out the first\h\h

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thing i'm going to say here though is is while\h
i agree that mainstream media has basically uh\h\h

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missed the boat on this thing and seems to be uh\h
determined to continue to miss out on this story\h\h

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i'm not ready to write them off uh because i think\h
that what they need is more of a kick in the ass\h\h

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they need to understand that this is exactly\h
what you discussed a few minutes ago which is\h\h

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it's going to be the biggest story of the 20s and\h
probably the 30s and maybe the 40s it's just going\h\h

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to be the the flower that keeps unfolding uh from\h
from a journalistic point of view and if people\h\h

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uh want to get the audience they're going to\h
have to wake up to it they don't have to do it\h\h

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like joe rogan they can do it differently they\h
can do it responsibly but they should take all\h\h

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the x-files music and the uh little green aliens\h
and they should take all the titters and the\h\h

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the smirks and the they should take away the\h
idea that all television newscasts uh don't\h\h

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lead with this story but they they go to break\h
on the story uh and and kind of downplay it\h\h

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that stuff needs to change and i think there are\h
people out there who who want to see it change we\h\h

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talked about this just last week because we\h
both admire gotti schwartz and yet here's a\h\h

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guy who seems to understand the storyline and\h
he got x-field files music played during his\h\h

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report so okay that's one take let's let's ask\h
ourselves this why is this happening though i mean\h\h

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these are not uh these are not stupid people these\h
are bright people that got these jobs because they\h\h

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fought to keep them and they've done some in\h
many cases good journalism on other stories\h\h

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why are they missing this one look i i think\h
there's a variety of issues that need to be\h\h

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explored and i think we'll have to deal with\h
them in the next segment because we're coming to\h\h

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the end of our first segment and i i think just to\h
tease though what we're going to talk about next i\h\h

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i think the issue is fundamentally there's a taboo\h
there's a stigma but also i think what people\h\h

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don't realize is it's a manufactured taboo it's\h
a manufactured stigma and also more importantly\h\h

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than that it's not just america we're talking\h
about coverage now of phenomenon that is global\h\h

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and i'm fascinated with the the degree of work\h
that is being done that should be acknowledged\h\h

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by people who are i think sometimes parentally\h
dismissed as ufologists what they are are\h\h

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researchers they're doing work that the mainstream\h
media is not doing and it's being done all over\h\h

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the world and more importantly some of the best\h
work has been done by governments themselves\h\h

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and i find that fascinating because the role that\h
other governments have played in researching the\h\h

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phenomenon really hasn't been acknowledged\h
that much and i think that's an issue that\h\h

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we should get into in our next segment because\h
frankly all you folk out there we need to know

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so earlier on we were talking about the fact\h
that the news media didn't really cover much\h\h

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at all the passing of harry reid in the context\h
of uaps ufos and frankly bryce i think it's a\h\h

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serious egregious oversight because\h
harry reid's contribution to this story\h\h

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it's important for the simple fact that this is\h
going to become the story of the 21st century\h\h

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and i know i sound like a tinfoil hat nutter\h
when i say that but i really do think this\h\h

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i i genuinely think that the subject that\h
we're talking about here is going to become\h\h

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the issue of our time probably a lot sooner than\h
we expect and i suspect a lot of this is going\h\h

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to have to do with the timing of the legislation\h
that senator harry reid had a key role in passing\h\h

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do you want to record that for our audience\h
yeah the the national defense authorization\h\h

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act was signed into law right after christmas in\h
in 2021 and what it included was the idea that\h\h

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we would start to investigate uap in a serious\h
basis with funding and that we would look into\h\h

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what the cause was we would demand uh\h
sharing of intelligence between various\h\h

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intelligence gathering agencies and that we would\h
demand a yearly unclassified and classified report\h\h

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uh on the topic so is a pretty big deal and i i\h
think it ties in with the whole harry reid thing\h\h

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it wasn't just harry reid that was being ignored\h
in a lot of the mainstream uh press it was also\h\h

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the idea that when the ndaa passed and and the uh\h
the media reports began to characterize well i did\h\h

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this it did that it did this it never mentioned\h
uap those were also a big fail uh and yet the uap\h\h

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aspect of it could potentially have the greatest\h
national security implications of anything in the\h\h

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dam uh report uh next i guess war with china or\h
russia so it was a it was a pretty big omission\h\h

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i wonder by the way ross if if it's not so much\h
individual reporters who are missing this although\h\h

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there are many but it's the reporting institutions\h
that are a little bit scared about it and and have\h\h

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not given the go-ahead and the permission to\h
cover this as aggressively as some of their own\h\h

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reporters would like to see happen which is why\h
i still as i said have a little bit of hope here\h\h

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that once it becomes clear that this is a well\h
it's it's clear to me now but once it becomes\h\h

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clear across the board that this is a real thing\h
that needs to be investigated on a deep level\h\h

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why wouldn't a journalistic organization want to\h
cover it so hopefully that message will go forward\h\h

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because you know as we were talking about it prior\h
there are a lot of journals that we like out there\h\h

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you know there's there's people doing good work um\h
some of the people uh have had to create their own\h\h

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institutions so i i talked about the debrief and\h
the drive for example these are institutions that\h\h

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that of journalism that are sort of growing up to\h
cover some of the uh areas that have been ignored\h\h

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i'm looking for the washington post and the new\h
york times and time and newsweek and all these\h\h

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other mainstream organizations to really get\h
in the act to the extent that they've covered\h\h

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uh ufo uap news so far it seems to me that they\h
cover it with these survey pieces they sort of\h\h

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regurgitate what's already in the news but they\h
don't advance it we'll know that we're actually\h\h

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making a big journalistic change when individual\h
organizations in the news business start\h\h

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competing with each other to break new stories\h
that's going to be the big change of 2020s yeah\h\h

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look if i can i'm not making excuses for these\h
big papers but i know the issue for our friends um\h\h

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ralph blumenthal and leslie kane who did the\h
original new york times work with helene cooper\h\h

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was there was a lot of background information\h
but as a journalist especially on an august\h\h

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institution like the new york times who i've\h
done work with in the past it is a formidable\h\h

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checking process and one of the things that's\h
quite disturbing as a journalist is when you're\h\h

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working on a collaborative investigation with a\h
paper like the new york times you actually have to\h\h

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share your sources you have to say look my source\h
is joe blogs and he's telling me x y and z and\h\h

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often this is a person that you've been talking\h
to confidentially for years and working to get\h\h

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them over the line and frankly it's very very hard\h
to do that in this national security environment i\h\h

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mean i'm conscious of the fact that i'm talking\h
to people who are probably in breach of their\h\h

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national security obligations um by by telling me\h
things about what they call the program and i know\h\h

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leslie kane and ralph blumenthal because i was\h
talking to one of them during their investigations\h\h

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for their last new york times story in 2020 i know\h
that they were talking to a lot more people than\h\h

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they put into the paper and in the end they ended\h
up using senator harry reid and dr eric davis as\h\h

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their primary on the record sources to talk about\h
the quite sensational allegation of retrieved\h\h

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non-terrestrial debris which is essentially code\h
for non-human technology and uh frankly i know\h\h

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because i've spoken to some of their sources\h
i suspect i i know that there are other other\h\h

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people there behind them behind there on the\h
record sources that were senator harry reid and\h\h

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dr eric davis who were prepared to come forward\h
but they got cold feet they got scared and frankly\h\h

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i would be scared too because there is a very very\h
rigorous u.s intelligence service and u.s military\h\h

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in incursion on restraining coverage of this issue\h
and a lot of people call it the truth embargo but\h\h

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i suspect that for quite plausible national\h
security reasons the united states is trying\h\h

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to keep a lid on this matter one it's lied it's\h
lied to the public it's lied to the congress it's\h\h

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deliberately misled congressmen and senators\h
so there's an embarrassment factor there but\h\h

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more importantly than that i think they're trying\h
to protect genuinely out of a heartfelt genuine\h\h

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concern a national security imperative they don't\h
want china or russia to get the technological\h\h

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advantage that they perceive they can derive from\h
if this is true this recovered technology what do\h\h

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you reckon i i think that's absolutely correct\h
i wanted to just focus a little bit for a moment\h\h

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because we're talking about journalism on how\h
you've gotten all these people to talk to you um\h\h

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you've gotten them to talk to you on background\h
i assume uh certainly they're maintaining their\h\h

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anonymity by name as on the record sources\h
i got a couple of things i'd like to clarify\h\h

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for our listeners how did you go about finding\h
these people how did you get them to talk to\h\h

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you have you had discussions with them as\h
you talk to them about literally giving\h\h

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their names up and going on the record and do\h
you believe that it's going to take some time\h\h

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before people start to go on the record in a print\h
my name i don't care what they say kind of way\h\h

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bryce as you would know having done the\h
kind of work that i've done in the past\h\h

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the most important thing for any investigative\h
journalist frankly to presume preserve my\h\h

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reputation is to protect my sources if you\h
blow a source you're effectively neutralizing\h\h

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that person as a witness and probably putting\h
their entire career in jeopardy so the biggest\h\h

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imperative for me when i started my research\h
was protecting the confidentiality of sources\h\h

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and i know and i think a lot of journalists aren't\h
aware of this if you just ring somebody cold or\h\h

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if you email them you leave a metadata trail and\h
i'm sure it's the same in the us under your home\h\h

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security laws as it is for us in australia\h
i've seen as a journalist i was once presented\h\h

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by a public servant source of mine with all of\h
the detail of all of the people who i'd called\h\h

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in the government on my mobile phone for the\h
preceding 12 months and he'd obtained this without\h\h

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warrant from our federal police under what's\h
called a telecommunications surveillance order\h\h

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and it made me realize it really made me sit\h
up and realize as a journalist i had to wake\h\h

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up to myself and learn to become much cleverer\h
in approaching people so for this investigation\h\h

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i wrote letters i with the help of some people in\h
the us who know how to obtain for home addresses\h\h

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i literally obtained home addresses and in\h
some cases i was so concerned about using the\h\h

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actual mail system i had letters hand delivered by\h
friends of mine in places like washington and new\h\h

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york and different parts of nevada and utah i was\h
so paranoid to make sure that these people felt\h\h

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that my approach to them my initial approach to\h
them had been done in a secure a way as possible\h\h

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and indeed some of the approaches that i\h
made were when i was working for australia's\h\h

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60 minutes and i was based for a while in\h
washington dc or new york and i would literally\h\h

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go and knock on people's doors cold and approach\h
them cold knowing that that was their home address\h\h

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and on more than a number of occasions i was\h
politely told to go forth and multiply and get\h\h

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the hell out of their house but on a number of\h
occasions people um especially when i took a cake\h\h

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i always like to take a cake if you break bread\h
with people it's quite nice if they realize\h\h

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you're a nice person but essentially i i made it\h
my imperative to protect sources and so i did what\h\h

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i could do to protect those sources and then we\h
established a way of communicating with each other\h\h

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i'm not happy with signal i'm not happy with\h
telegram i'm not even happy with whatsapp i don't\h\h

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think any of those encrypted apps are properly\h
secure so i use dead letter drops on the dark\h\h

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web i for some of my most protected sources i use\h
vpn's tor which is the dark web encryption system\h\h

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and i i basically use ways of protecting\h
sources that are they're completely off the grid

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i'm so paranoid about it frankly all of that is\h
something that you need to be doing and i think it\h\h

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also means that if we have to continue to do that\h
through the rest of the decade we aren't going to\h\h

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make the big strides so hopefully more and more of\h
these people are going to find ways especially in\h\h

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retirement of of coming forward i had to laugh\h
though when you said you brought a cake in the\h\h

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dark skies pilot that i wrote in the main in the\h
very first episode uh the john lonegaard character\h\h

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goes to see betty and barney hill and he brings a\h
fruitcake with him to talk his way in and you know\h\h

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certain things just never get old the one thing i\h
was going to say listening to you talk about these\h\h

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strategy and tactics it's more tactics that you're\h
talking the strategy is to get people to talk\h\h

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the tactic is bring them a fruitcake or write to\h
them privately in a way that they can feel secure\h\h

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about i i find it kind of interesting because we\h
started to say internationally there's a lot of\h\h

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research going on as well it isn't just the\h
sources we need to talk to there's a lot of\h\h

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material that's already been put out there in in\h
studies and so forth that that people don't even\h\h

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know about i was just reading over the condyne\h
report uh do i hope i said that right but one\h\h

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of the things that said this is a uk report\h
that i believe uh came out uh in the 2000s is\h\h

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do i have that right okay just just so people know\h
this is something you could go quote right now um\h\h

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it said in that report summary that uap exist is\h
indisputable credited with the ability to hover\h\h

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land take off accelerate to exceptional\h
velocities and vanish they can reportedly\h\h

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alter their direction of flight suddenly and\h
clearly can exhibit aerodynamic characteristics\h\h

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well beyond those of only known aircraft or\h
missiles either manned or unmanned i mean come on\h\h

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this is in a public document our own uap task\h
force document from the 25th says it a little what\h\h

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that says in a little less uh perfect a way but\h
there's great information and and of course the\h\h

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french put out their comedo report um in i believe\h
99 um there's just so much good information it's\h\h

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time for journalists though to start tilling that\h
soil as well i know that you've done your homework\h\h

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because i read your book and you'd clearly\h
read all these reports and and called upon them\h\h

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uh and as as we all need to start doing in our in\h
our writing about this and in our talking about it\h\h

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and it it it can go hand in glove i\h
believe with uh the people who have some\h\h

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inside knowledge i've talked to my share of\h
them as well i do find them to be very nervous\h\h

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but i also find something uh really interesting\h
when you talk to one person and they don't come\h\h

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away thinking that you're irresponsible and in\h
fact maybe you brought him a nice cake they're\h\h

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apt to say you know you should really talk to my\h
friend or they go call their friend up and say\h\h

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you should really talk to ross and you start\h
to get other people and you get this web\h\h

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of journalistic tying together and that's\h
where stories come from my friends and\h\h

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and i think that's why your book is a success\h
and why there are going to be new stories broken\h\h

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in 2022 because all that information is out there\h
and people are just itching to tell it and as\h\h

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we've said on this uh podcast before washington\h
leaks like a sieve and we are about to hear some\h\h

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of that um look i completely agree with you about\h
project condy bryce and i think the significance\h\h

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of that document for me is that it stated 25\h
years ago was originally written in 1996 1997\h\h

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and not only did it say that the phenomenon\h
of ufos unidentified objects is indisputable\h\h

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it also dismissed any notion that they could\h
be prosaically explained it basically said\h\h

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that they they were genuine unexplained cases and\h
i think there's a little bit more that we need to\h\h

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discuss about the fact that ufos uaps are being\h
discussed internationally not just in the united\h\h

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states so let's come back in a moment on need to\h
know with what's going on around the world on uaps\h\h

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you know it's not easy to stay current on a\h
topic as broad and as compelling as uap when\h\h

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there's so much going on and you know like\h
ross and i both listen to other podcasts we\h\h

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both read a lot of other articles we read books\h
we try to stay current and you know one of the\h\h

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things that i've heard about most recently with\h
this newly passed ndaa which is the national\h\h

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defense authorization act is people saying when\h
they were interviewed about it well what do you\h\h

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think is going to come out of that and i heard two\h
different people on two different podcasts say the\h\h

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phrase well we'll just have to wait and see and\h
i i don't know that just rubbed me the wrong way\h\h

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it's not how i roll i i think proactive is\h
the way we have to go on this thing if we\h\h

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wait and see what the government is going to do\h
it means we don't even get that next report until\h\h

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october 31st of 2022 quite likely i think we need\h
to not be waiting and seeing i think we need to be\h\h

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thinking and doing and i think that's what we've\h
been talking about ross what say you i completely\h\h

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agree i mean the whole notion of wait and see\h
is absurd because i don't think the government\h\h

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wants the public to know the full story i think\h
at the moment the problem the problem is that um\h\h

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the united states government is sitting on things\h
it doesn't want to disclose so by definition the\h\h

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attempts to provide reports to congress will be\h
attempting to constrain the narrative they will\h\h

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try and limit how much they reveal so i think the\h
best that we're going to hear in october next year\h\h

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in the first report from the pentagon is\h
essentially an acknowledgement the mystery\h\h

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is real a repetition of the june 25th 2021 report\h
to the congress we might get a few more details\h\h

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about anomalous objects seen in our skies space or\h
underwater but i don't think the us particularly\h\h

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wants to talk about retrieved technology or\h
attempts by countries to back engineer this\h\h

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technology it's just too loopy in the views of\h
mainstream media to even discuss that notion\h\h

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but the simple fact is that it's on the public\h
record now that so many officials are saying\h\h

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there is a reality here that needs to be properly\h
engaged with and just to come back for a moment\h\h

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to the issue we were talking about in the last\h
segment about the global uh addressing of this\h\h

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issue one of the things in the british condyne\h
report that i thought was especially telling\h\h

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was that the british 25 years ago in this official\h
ministry of defense report that i should by the\h\h

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way acknowledge that our colleague professor david\h
clarke a very noted ufo researcher in the united\h\h

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kingdom had an instrumental role in getting\h
declassified it's a phenomenal document and\h\h

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in that document there is an acknowledgment that\h
the russians had had attempts to bring down ufos\h\h

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foiled and jet fighters and their pilots were lost\h
in these engagements these were admissions made by\h\h

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senior officials of the soviet military at the end\h
of the cold war to british investigators and there\h\h

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were also admissions made by the soviets at the\h
time at the end of the cold war not so much now\h\h

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that there were attempts being made by the\h
russians to replicate the technologies that they'd\h\h

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seen which by implication means they've recovered\h
some of these technologies so there's a hell of a\h\h

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lot going on behind the scenes and my sources\h
have told me as well privately that there is\h\h

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indeed a soviet effort a russian effort sorry to\h
back engineer technology that has been recovered\h\h

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by the russians in a secret facility in the ural\h
mountains so there's a hell of a lot going on here\h\h

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globally that i think is far beyond anything that\h
the united states is going on and i think this\h\h

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i can tell you so much fruitful areas for um\h
investigation i i'm blown away by the response\h\h

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that i've had from readers and viewers and\h
listeners to our podcast and i think that\h\h

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you know if any of this information can\h
be demonstrated to be accurate and true\h\h

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the best way to make things happen is for people\h
to stop waiting for the mainstream media to engage\h\h

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with this issue and to actually start doing this\h
research themselves don't wait for mainstream\h\h

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media to do it and don't wait for the government\h
to tell you start start looking into it and and\h\h

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clearly if crash wreckage is the next big shoe to\h
drop and the first shoe was simply that oh yeah we\h\h

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have military encounters and we have some of them\h
uh on video that we can show you and if the next\h\h

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big one is crash wreckage first crash wreckage\h
is physical all right so that that's that's\h\h

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that physical evidence people are talking about uh\h
secondly it doesn't necessarily require the united\h\h

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states to come forward with what it knows first\h
as you pointed out yes maybe the united states\h\h

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has something from roswell or a half a dozen other\h
crashes and it would be nice to know about that\h\h

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and that can be a big race but there's also other\h
countries out there including russia i remember\h\h

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again that our friend george knapp actually\h
smuggled some documents out of the soviet union\h\h

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or russia i guess it still was it was recently\h
in 1994 when he got him out and so there's been\h\h

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a there's a wealth of documents they come not just\h
from the u.s and russia they also come from china\h\h

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they come from brazil france the uk uh there's a\h
number of south uh american nations that have also\h\h

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looked into these things and been instrumental\h
so as people start to come forward uh and this\h\h

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if this story elevates itself i mean i don't think\h
there's any such thing as game over but there is\h\h

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one that takes you to the next level in in video\h
game parlance what you do is you level up right\h\h

328
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,200
well if there's ever going to be anything\h
that's going to level up this discussion\h\h

329
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:48,960
and do it in a heartbeat it's going to be some\h
journalistic effort whether it originates here\h\h

330
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:55,200
or from the vatican i don't care where but if\h
somebody's got crash wreckage and can prove it\h\h

331
00:34:55,200 --> 00:35:00,560
uh that takes us to the next level of discussing\h
this thing and i just uh we were talking about the\h\h

332
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,600
condyne report i had read it a number of years\h
ago and then of course i was interested knowing\h\h

333
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:12,800
we might discuss it looked it over again i just\h
always get a chill when i read that this report\h\h

334
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:20,160
starts with winston churchill there's a quote that\h
churchill has from july 28 1952. now remember this\h\h

335
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:25,600
is right after the overflights and during the\h
overflights of washington dc that were so famous\h\h

336
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:31,440
here's churchill's quote that they start their\h
condyne report with he says what does all this\h\h

337
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:41,040
stuff about flying saucers amount to what can it\h
mean what is the truth and then he writes let me\h\h

338
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:47,440
have a report at your convenience well you know\h
those reports were written not all of them are\h\h

339
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:54,240
declassified some of them are reporters need to go\h
get them well also it also should be acknowledged\h\h

340
00:35:54,240 --> 00:36:00,640
that some of the most powerful and influential\h
proponents of the reality of the uap phenomenon\h\h

341
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,920
one of them was the chief of air staff of the\h
british air force you know one of the most\h\h

342
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,600
senior officials in the british military\h
said that he felt that the united states\h\h

343
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:15,920
government was withholding evidence and he told\h
our colleague and friend timothy good who wrote\h\h

344
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:21,680
some excellent books on this subject 20 30 years\h
ago he told him i think hill norton was his name\h\h

345
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:27,520
he said that there was a reality there that wasn't\h
being acknowledged and i was very privileged once\h\h

346
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:32,320
to travel to the united kingdom for one of the tv\h
shows i worked with here in australia and i did a\h\h

347
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:38,400
story about the british uap sightings notably\h
the black triangles during the 1980s period\h\h

348
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:45,920
and i was gobsmacked i was interviewing former raf\h
former royal air force wing commanders who'd had\h\h

349
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:53,600
direct sightings experiences from their fighter\h
jets with solid metallic objects and uh it was\h\h

350
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,480
very interesting because um nick pope at the\h
time was still in the united kingdom and i\h\h

351
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:04,240
interviewed him the former uh guy who'd done some\h
of the work investigating uaps for the british\h\h

352
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:09,760
government the ministry of defence and uh he took\h
me through the british national archives we sat\h\h

353
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:15,440
down in the public records office of the british\h
national archives and those records are phenomenal\h\h

354
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:22,560
they record an incredible history of recorded\h
military sightings and i know i sounded probably\h\h

355
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,360
a bit fixated on official reports or military\h
reports because i don't want to detract from\h\h

356
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,560
people who've had experiences who aren't\h
military witnesses or government witnesses but\h\h

357
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:38,480
there is something more authentic more valid about\h
the fact that there is a military document that\h\h

358
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:44,960
often corroborates with radar or with multiple\h
corroborative sightings from senior officers\h\h

359
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:51,920
things that have happened you know right i it is\h
breathtaking and it for most people who research\h\h

360
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,560
it it leads to that moment where for me it was\h
three in the morning and i was doing research\h\h

361
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:02,640
on a project and i'm reading through book after\h
book and report after report and i just remember\h\h

362
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:08,000
it's dark and quiet in my house my kids are asleep\h
my wife is asleep and i'm thinking to myself oh my\h\h

363
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:14,320
god this is real now what i want to say to the\h
people who are listening to us no ross and i\h\h

364
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:20,320
have just not fallen off the truck and now we buy\h
everything we don't uh we still look at this on a\h\h

365
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:26,880
skeptical basis because you have to because um\h
just because there's a a fire doesn't mean that\h\h

366
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,560
there's not a lot of smoke around it and just\h
because there's a signal doesn't mean there's\h\h

367
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:35,520
not a lot of noise around it so you do have\h
to separate all that but what i do want to say\h\h

368
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:43,600
is that you can trust that we and other people who\h
are involved in this have had access to over 75\h\h

369
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:51,520
years now of of actual reports that were written\h
by various uh entities some of them government\h\h

370
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:58,240
most of them government but also uh all kinds of\h
research that was done some of it by private uh\h\h

371
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:05,040
organizations and also all kinds of statements\h
of about sightings from people that include\h\h

372
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:13,840
frankly police officers and law enforcement and\h
military and radar operators and pilots of all\h\h

373
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:19,440
manner and stripe and it is an overwhelming\h
amount of evidence now it doesn't mean it's\h\h

374
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:25,600
all true but the thing is it means it's\h
worth investigating and i think what has\h\h

375
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,800
happened over the years is we've gotten to\h
the place where we can no longer tolerate not\h\h

376
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:37,040
looking into this anymore it's just intolerable\h
to pretend it doesn't exist i agree and one of\h\h

377
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:42,080
the gratifying things you might remember one or\h
two podcasts ago bryce i invited people to contact\h\h

378
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,480
me if they had any ideas about how we could\h
actually be more systematic and collecting data\h\h

379
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,840
that would allow us to be more systematic in\h
approaching the investigation of this subject\h\h

380
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,800
and boy i've had some very very\h
interesting messages from people\h\h

381
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:04,720
there is a real desire out there for i think\h
proper investigation of this issue and i'm\h\h

382
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:11,280
i'll drop this big hint i'm getting intonations\h
from corporate world sources that there is a\h\h

383
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,800
recognition that because of the scale of the\h
importance of uaps over the next few years\h\h

384
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,400
companies involved in data collection\h
are actually interested in funding and\h\h

385
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,920
investigating the phenomenon in a much more\h
systematic way so frankly just to come back\h\h

386
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:33,520
to this issue of the us government i think it's\h
going to be overtaken by events there's nothing\h\h

387
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:41,680
more compelling than seeing an issue gain momentum\h
and this is an issue that's gaining momentum\h\h

388
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:47,280
and where there's a buck there's a will and\h
i think people are recognizing that there are\h\h

389
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:54,480
technologies that are behind this this phenomenon\h
that represents enormous potential breakthroughs\h\h

390
00:40:54,480 --> 00:41:00,160
for humanity and i guess i i suppose it you know\h
i i might come close to wrapping because we're\h\h

391
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:07,440
probably pretty close to wrapping here i think\h
that's the big thing for the future that that it\h\h

392
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:13,440
doesn't really matter what the us government says\h
in its reports because it's going to be overtaken\h\h

393
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:19,120
by events there's momentum here now don't you\h
agree well that's one of the great things about\h\h

394
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:24,480
journalism you can make plans you can say we're\h
going to investigate this or look into that\h\h

395
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:30,720
and then there are also events that happen there's\h
news that's why they call it news and if indeed\h\h

396
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:40,560
there is a reality to the uap phenomena that is\h
global then these events are happening even as\h\h

397
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:45,520
we speak and if you listen to the pilots\h
that have gone on record about this many\h\h

398
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:52,480
of these military pilots say that this stuff is\h
happening on a more or less daily basis in extreme\h\h

399
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:58,720
cases and so one of the things that we might\h
be able to say is whatever we predict here on\h\h

400
00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:05,920
this podcast or on anyone else's show or or in\h
any other way events may come in and just snap\h\h

401
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:13,200
make a big change in that so i think uh we can\h
definitely look forward to news being made on\h\h

402
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:20,560
this topic in the 20s and uh any one of those news\h
events could be the game changer that gets people\h\h

403
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:28,400
particularly journalists actively back in the game\h
i actually think that it is as we've said naive to\h\h

404
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,880
think that the us government should take the lead\h
on this and that it will control the narrative\h\h

405
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:38,720
it's way past that now because frankly the\h
story is going to come out whatever happens\h\h

406
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:44,000
and i think the us knows that and i i think\h
that's what's really behind all of this drive\h\h

407
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:49,360
for disclosure to the congress transparency some\h
degree of accountability they know they're going\h\h

408
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:54,720
to get caught short if they don't they're going\h
to be embarrassed if they don't concede something\h\h

409
00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:01,440
and the united states government if nothing else\h
is competitive even on disclosure they may not\h\h

410
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:07,520
want to be skunked on actually uh leading that\h
dialogue so who knows that may be another big\h\h

411
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,000
story for us okay folks we want to just give\h
you some quick information about what you need\h\h

412
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:18,720
to know about need to know you can find our\h
basic information at need to know dot today\h\h

413
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:26,480
so that's just spell it out n-e-e-d-t-o-k-n-o-w\h
dot today and also that's our home page by the\h\h

414
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,200
way and that also works for just about anything\h
you need to know about this podcast both ross\h\h

415
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:37,280
and i do have twitter feeds of course mine is\h
at hollywood ufos and ross is at ross coldheart\h\h

416
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,640
and by the way you have to know how to spell your\h
name so i'm going to toss it to you ross tell\h\h

417
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:49,920
people how to spell your name ross of course\h
is ro double s cult artist c-o-u-l-t-h-a-r-t\h\h

418
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:56,640
good border scott's name well listen so until\h
next time my good friend remember we really\h\h